Organic vegetables

[Muhammad Arif Khan]

The so called organic fertilisers (including the green) are also excellent soil amender.
Given in any form the plant absorbs nutrients in inorganic form. so all vegetables grown are primarily inorganic.
We may eat carbohydrates in any form they get absorbed as Glucose/Fructose.
Easiest and care free gardening makes happy gardener.
Arif

[RedEyeJedi]

Wouldn't introducing chemicals into an organic system kill the microbial life in the soil? Or is everyone talking about running the two systems side by side?

[newton]

I am also an agriculturist, for the benefit of city dwellers, the life style in our rural areas has completely changed.
Gone are the days when agriculture was based on cattle/man power. A typical family had two to ...Oxen depending upon their land holding for ploughing, a few milk animals, goats and sheep. Their dung was enough for fertilising the fields, Mechanisation has taken over the cattle/man power. Now there are NO CATTLE,NO DUNG, NO MANURE and there goes your organic farming.
Arif

What was used to control pests in those times? I mean what natural ways did the early agriculturists use to control unwanted guests on the plants?

I refer to the work of Sir Albert Howard in India 1873-1947 http://ps-survival.com/PS/Crops/On_Food ... a_1910.pdf

In the canal colonies of the Punjab, however, wheat is grown year after year without manure, apparently without producing any diminution in the fertility of the soil. Judging from the dark green colour of the leaves and the general vegetative vigour of the crop, no nitrogenous manures are necessary. The question arises whence do the large wheat crops derive their nitrogenous manure? Apparently the answer is to be found in the leguminous weeds which thrive so luxuriantly as a bottom growth in the wheat fields of the Punjab.

'There are three common leguminous weeds among others in the Punjab wheat fields: (1) yellow-flowered senji (Melilotus indica), (2) white- flowered senji (Melilotus alba), and (3) a creeping clover-like plant with curious curved pods (Medicago denticulata). These three plants also grow and seed freely on the banks of the water channels, and are very probably distributed by the irrigation water. In the wheat-fields they ripen their seeds and dry up by the early part of April before the wheat is cut and thus give no trouble at harvest time. At flowering time in March their roots are covered with nodules. Their general vigour shows that they are admirably adapted for bottom growth with wheat.

'It would appear, therefore, that these weeds confer on the soil of some of the irrigated wheat lands of the Punjab all the benefits of a leguminous rotation and supply the nitrogenous manure required by the wheat crop. In this respect the wheat growers of the Punjab seem to be especially favoured by circumstances as they are able to obtain all the benefits of leguminous crops without the diminution of wheat output entailed in the usual rotations practised on wheat lands in other parts of India. No difficulty would be experienced in obtaining seeds of these leguminous plants. They grow and seed freely among the wheat, in waste places and on the banks of the water channels. Yellow-flowered senji mixed with the other two weeds is grown as a cold weather fodder crop in the Punjab and is sometimes left to ripen for seed purposes.'

Our ancestral agricultural techniques also took into account pests for instance wheat of three varieties was grow,. one was quick to mature and thrived with little water (before the seasonal pests became a problem like locusts) one was resistant to rust and one was shorter and resistant to being toppled over by unseasonal rains and rot etc. The benfits of this were like a calculated gamble, at least one crop would survive and starvation would not happen. Similarly gramme barley lentils and saag provided a buffer and pest management

[M Farooq]

Interesting historical notes.

[Muhammad Arif Khan]

Thank you Ifzal, We have been indoctrinated and brain washed that what ever is in print (and now on net) is the truth, but now we are getting wiser.
Nothing in nature is useless only we lack the knowledge, the rotation of crops ploughing in of last cutting of leguminous crops and no formal plantation for a season (giving the recovery time) were common practice.
But now we are wiser and have taken over the task of nature by supplementing the required nutrients for better results.
What is the harm in doing so?
Arif

[newton]

Thank you Ifzal, But now we are wiser and have taken over the task of nature by supplementing the required nutrients for better results.
What is the harm in doing so?
Arif

In my humble experience some of the harm that is caused includes

1. Many farmers applying chemicals and fertilisers without testing of the soil. So often neither soil nor plant needs it and cash is wasted
2. The run off from excess chemicals causes pollution issues in the groundwater sources.
3. The fertiliser also creates ideal conditions for the growth of noxious weeds which nowadays are increasingly troublesome.
4. The noxious weeds also then require specific herbicides affecting the balance of nature in the environment
5. The heavy fertilisers create growth spurts which change the plant at cellular level making them attractive and susceptible to insect attack.
6. To combat the insect attack pesticides are required which again pollute the groundwater and other beneficial insects when improperly applied.
7. Chemicals cant and wont change or improve the chemical structure of the soil. In fact very often they have the opposite effect.

The soil needs the additional manure and aeration in order to facilitate the uptake of the nutrients. plants grown this way are generally vigorous, hardier, healthier and better positioned to flourish and resist insect attack. almost like clinical obesity v fitness in humans or animals.

Having said all of that there is a place for additional chemical fertilisers, pesticides and herbicides. They can and do provide very many benefits to the farmers, gardeners and hobbyists.

What is lacking is general knowledge of their safe and calculated usage in our environment. Its that issue which is of concern to me

There is also a loss..... even dismissal without justification of our ancient tried and trusted methods and techniques.

[Muhammad Arif Khan]

I agree with you.
If you want a fast car then you must learn to drive well.
In my past posts I have many a time pointed out irrelevant inappropriate use of chemical fertilisers even by our educated community.
Having said all of that there is a place for additional chemical fertilisers, pesticides and herbicides. They can and do provide very many benefits to the farmers, gardeners and hobbyists.

What is lacking is general knowledge of their safe and calculated usage in our environment. Its that issue which is of concern to me. (Ifzal)
This to me is one of the aims of this forum.
Arif